General Lee: I Get It, But I Will Be Sad

"TotallyThatStupid" (jbbush) 06/24/2015 at 10:33 • Filed to: GENERAL LEE

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Without getting into a political pissing match here on Oppo, I will say I have no objections with the wholesale removal of Confederate flags based on the fact it’s pissing more people off than not (it seems). Again, without getting into the yes/no – just take it for what it is in this instance because, and more importantly...

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has said they will put the kibosh on the General as we know it, which is a bummer. I grew up with the Dukes (in Connecticut, no less) and all the toys that went with it. I still have a bunch of them. I will miss the ability to be able to easily buy DoH products whenever the whim strikes. But, again, I get it.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I guess I could always head over to Cooter’s Place, but Ben Jones is kind of a whacko these days.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:36

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No matter how offended some people might be for the sake of being offended, no ones rights were being revoked by these in modern times, therefore this is blatant and unconstitutional censoring.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:40

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They weren’t forced to censor it, they just decided it was a good business decision to remove it. Big difference.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:40

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I’m honestly happy the flag is leaving the general, hopefully less chargers will die to make a ‘Lee

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:40

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If the government isn’t making them take it off, it’s not censoring.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:41

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A company can’t make their own decisions?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 10:41

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Or more will. The redneck mentality is “F them, I do what I want.” And now mullets who never even cared about Chargers will be buying them up and putting Confederate flags on top just to piss everyone off.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:42

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Unless it’s the government saying “remove it or you are breaking the law”, it’s not censorship.

newsmctado > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:42

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You’re an idiot, you don’t understand the Constitution, and therefore should not speak regarding “unconstitutional censoring.” The First Amendment states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Congress has made no law abridging the freedom of speech. Rather, private companies (WalMart, Amazon, Ebay, etc) have decided to remove these products because the public outcry over them is costing them business (or is expected to cost them business). The First Amendment has no relevance to what a private company decides to do in the face of public opinion. This is exactly how the free market is supposed to work. There is no censorship at all, let alone “unconstitutional censorship.”

CB > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:42

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I understand it, but I disagree. You know how Warner Brothers released those older Looney Tune animations, stating that parts were racists/offensive but it was important to know what the past was like rather than censor it? I think the General Lee should be exempt, since that’s a part of the car, even if people find it offensive. Hell, the Sound of Music has Nazis in it, and we still watch that shit.

TheHondaBro > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:43

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The flag represent a terrible moment in this country's history. Imagine Germans running around with the Nazi flag strapped to their VW. It’s the same thing.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snuze: Needs another Swede 06/24/2015 at 10:43

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Well at the very least charger owners can make a premium off of rednecks trying to show the gub’mint wat fer.

McMike > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:44

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Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > CB 06/24/2015 at 10:46

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Well the nazis were that baddies in The Sound of Music . I think the original series should stay as it is, but any remakes absolutely shouldn’t have the flag on the roof.

Nonster > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:47

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The thing that people are mostly up in arms about is flying it on government property. Taking the stars and bars down from the state capitol is appropriate. Taking it off a car in a movie/tv show is kinda silly, but whatever its a corporate pr move.

pauljones > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/24/2015 at 10:47

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Easy, cowboy. Read the entire story before you jump to a conclusion. This is where critical thinking comes in. Too many people don’t read through an entire story, project what they want to see on it, and then go nuts about something that isn’t even true. As Car Guy points out, no one forced anyone to do anything. There is no legal mandate to remove the flag at a federal, state, or local level. Nobody censored anybody. This was a corporate decision made for PR purposes. There is no conspiracy or censorship going on here.

Justin Young > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:47

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I was wondering the same thing. I recognize the Confederate flag because of General Lee. Removing it from the Charger is like removing the flux capacitor on the BTTF DeLorean.

nermal > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:48

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The meat of the article is that they’re not licensing the design out for models (Hot Wheels, etc) and other toys.

Probably wasn’t selling too well, and the studio thinks the “good PR” they get from this move will be greater than the loss from waxing the licensing for toys.

McMike > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:49

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All due to some assholes who decided to fly it while being assholes.

Thanks, assholes.

CB > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 10:49

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Alright, that is a fair point. I guess it really is the only thing to do, isn’t it?

Nonster > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:50

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I get it too, but I still wish they would have left it alone. They could put the good ole stars and stripes on it, but that would be kinda conflicting with the name General Lee... oh well

William Byrd > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 10:52

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Makes sense from a PR standpoint. I thought their treament of it in the re-make movie was pretty solid actually. They acknowledged it and the fact that it doesn’t necessarily have a positive image.

As for the General Lee itself, you mostly see it from the angle above, or from below as it’s jumping shit. So I think the ridiculous orange Charger with an “01” on the side will always be the General Lee, regardless of what’s adorned on the roof.

Actually, just toss an American Flag up there, done.

newsmctado > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 10:52

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You’re right; Nazis were in the Sound of Music. And they were the bad guys. And after that movie came out, you didn’t see people waving the swastika around and talking about “historical traditions.”

CB > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 10:54

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His point, I’m guessing, is that the Dukes were the good guys, and good guys shouldn’t have a symbol such as the Confederate flag on their roof.

pauljones > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 10:56

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Let’s ease off on the insults, chief.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > McMike 06/24/2015 at 10:56

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Actually wasn’t it more of it just flying, then someone being offended by it by seeing it. The one that started it all was a historical flag, not a private one, IIRC.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 10:58

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I’m unsure of what side you are advocating...

mcseanerson > McMike 06/24/2015 at 10:58

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So good.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > McMike 06/24/2015 at 11:02

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Well it’s kinda a flag that is historically used by assholes right from it’s inception, and really the Duke boys are no exception.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Nonster 06/24/2015 at 11:04

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The M3 tank is called the Lee tank, after the said general Lee, and it flew the stars and stripes into battle. You can honour a person while accepting that they fought for terrible shit. I respect Rommel greatly, but I also wouldn’t call a car the general Rommel and then paint a swastika on the roof.

Justin Hughes > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:05

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The article headline is misleading at best, and just plain wrong at worst. Look at the quote from Warner Brothers, hidden halfway down the very cluttered page.

Warner Bros. Consumer Products has one licensee producing die-cast replicas and vehicle model kits featuring the General Lee with the confederate flag on its roof–as it was seen in the TV series. We have elected to cease the licensing of these product categories.

They are NOT removing the Confederate flag from the General Lee. They are simply revoking the license to produce die-cast replicas of the car. BIG difference. As much as the flag represents certain things that I am against (slavery, racism, etc.), it’s also inseparable from this car in my mind. I, too, grew up with it (in Massachusetts).

Seems to me it’s a good time to buy up the last of the die-cast General Lees before they’re all gone...

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Justin Young 06/24/2015 at 11:06

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It’s still pumpkin orange, pretty recognizable IMO.

punkgoose17 > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:09

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I am not a fan of DoH, but it is not a General Lee without the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

mcseanerson > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:10

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I think they should just kill the whole thing rather than try to get rid of the flag. I don’t really see the point of Dukes of Hazard trying to pretend southern culture doesn’t exist.

crowmolly > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:14

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I saw this earlier. Was gonna post it but I chickened out.

I was (and still am) a huge Dukes fan. Used to watch it every night as a kid before my parents sent me to bed so they could watch Dallas . My first project car hunt was for a ‘69 Charger. I own all the box seasons on DVD and many episodes on VHS. I even have some unboxed toys from years ago.

That said, this has been on the table for a while. Back when Dukes of Hazzard: Return of the General Lee was in the works there was a debate over whether or not they should include the flag (they did eventually) back in 2004. Rumor was flying about the box set being held up because of it. Back in 2012 there was a buzz about removing the flag from toys.

A few years back I spoke to a guy who has owned a General replica since the 1980s, and he admitted that times have changed and he’s more self-conscious now about driving around with the flag on the roof. Years ago people recognized it as a TV car, now there’s more and more people who have never heard of the D of H and think he’s an asshole.

So just like you, I get it. Times are different now and the flag needs to go. Warner Brothers owns the licensing and can do what they want with the General.

Strangely enough, when the show first aired they had no issue with the flag, however Daisy had to wear stockings with her shorts to get past the network censors. Now the flag would never pass and Daisy could walk around in almost anything.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:19

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What about the atrocities committed against the native Americans under the American flag? Does that make the American flag racist? What about the slave states that fought for the union? Does that make the American flag hateful and racist? Slavery was hardly only a Southern thing. Slaves arrived in New York, Boston, and Philadelphia. You can’t whitewash the North’s involvement in slavery and blame it exclusively on the South. That's not how this works. As far as the flag over the SC Capitol building, it probably never should've been raised over state property in the first place. But I'd hate to see them cave to sanctimonious internet social justice warriors who don't even live in South Carolina and therefore have no say in the matter. By the way, not attacking you personally OP, just getting these thoughts out there.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > punkgoose17 06/24/2015 at 11:22

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*Army of Tennessee. NoVA one is same design but square

bob and john > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 11:22

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if they REALLY want the flag, get a vinyl made. big deal.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 11:24

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I’ll just leave this here:

LongbowMkII > William Byrd 06/24/2015 at 11:28

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I would love to see the mental gymnastics on that one. You can’t put the American flag on theere because.... because.... um Liberals!

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 11:34

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It’s been misused as a symbol of hatred. I’m not denying that at all. That’s not what it stands for. But hey, if that's your only counterpoint, whatever.

newsmctado > pauljones 06/24/2015 at 11:35

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I am not going to ease off. First, people spouting off about constitutional ideas that they have no understanding of deserve ridicule. Second, I am from Charleston SC (now living in Michigan). Until September 2014, my father worked in the building next to the church and parked in the church parking lot everyday for work. I have ancestors that fought and died on both sides in the Civil War. I am fully aware of the “history” that the flag represents. That history is one of racism, bondage and oppression. After the Civil War the confederate flag (really, the Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia) was routinely used as a symbol of institutionalized racism and oppression, as a banner for lynch mobs, and as a rallying point for Jim Crow segregation. It is a shameful symbol and if you think that flying it on state property (or putting it on your car) is nothing more than tacit support of those ideas, you’re wrong. There is no justification for it.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 11:38

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It’s been misused as a symbol of hatred. I’m not denying that at all. That’s not what it stands for. But hey, if that’s your only counterpoint, whatever.

See how something like a flag associated with crimes against humanity could be construed as offensive?

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 11:40

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Absolutely. But what about these guys? Are they hateful racists? What I'm trying to say here is that meaning depends on intention. If you use that flag to show your hatred for blacks/other minorities, then you're a piece of trash, no question. But anything else? What's the big deal? People are going to get offended no matter what's on top of a flagpole, no matter if it's the confederate flag, American flag, or anything else. It's impossible to please everyone. Why let a vocal and ignorant minority bully you about an issue they have no say in? Bottom line is, it's for the people of South Carolina to decide, not you or me.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 11:41

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We agree with you, but being civil is one of the rules of oppo. I would say it’s fine in this case, but then I’m not a mod. I would just remove any direct insults from future comments. It’s much better to let people make asses of themselves.

crowmolly > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 11:46

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Bingo. Logo and symbol appropriation.

Get a tattoo of that and try telling people it’s the Hindu symbol for good luck.

crowmolly > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 11:48

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Well, that’s not the St Andrew’s Cross, so I wonder if they really know what they had.

pauljones > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 11:48

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I understand that you have very strong feelings on this matter; feelings that I happen to agree with. That’s great and I encourage you to share them in discussions. As it happens, I also have very strong feelings about keeping insults out of arguments, no matter how passionate one may feel about the subject matter. As it also happens, I’m a moderator here.

Rule #1 of Oppositelock is simple: Don’t be a dick.

Repeated violation of that rule will result in a banning. Consider yourself duly warned.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 11:50

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No, but I would say they have a terrible choice in flags.

Just let the damn flag go already.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > crowmolly 06/24/2015 at 11:53

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They know exactly what it is. A symbol of rebellion. They're freedom fighters, it says so in the caption.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 11:59

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Dude how hard was it to find that picture? Even reverse GIS had problems finding similar pictures.

newsmctado > pauljones 06/24/2015 at 12:00

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I apologize for my emotions getting the better of my judgment. You’re right. I should not have insulted another Oppo-Naut.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 12:03

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Pretty easy actually. And no, my search was not “black people with confederate flag.”

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:08

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What was it then?

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 12:12

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“Confederate flag Berlin Wall.” Completely unrelated

DipodomysDeserti > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 12:15

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That's because Germans are generally a lot smarter than most people in the South.

Kanaric > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 12:16

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What I never got about this General Lee is that it was Kentucky. They fought for the North. I have friends from there and none of them like that confederate stuff at all.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TotallyThatStupid 06/24/2015 at 12:18

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Hi. I’m black, know my American History pretty damned good, and my opinions definitely do not line up with everyone else, but I think getting rid of the flag on the general lee is stupid. It’s a part of history, and as bad as it may be, it happened, and it should stay. Never change history.

Furthermore, I hate how everyone gets offeneded by eveything and anything nowadays.

BigBlock440 > William Byrd 06/24/2015 at 12:22

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Edit.

pauljones > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:24

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They may know that it is a symbol of rebellion, but they may not be aware of what rebellion it was a symbol of, and the dark history of that rebellion.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 12:25

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Look man, I respect your opinion and just want to say thanks for not blowing up and calling me names. It happens way too often on Gawker sites when people have different opinions. If I knew you personally, I'd totally sit down and discuss this with you face-to-face, but I don't. And arguing on the internet sucks. So anyway, thanks for the respectful and polite conversation.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > pauljones 06/24/2015 at 12:28

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And that rebellion wouldn’t even have lasted long at all if the South had accepted the Corwin Amendment. All I’m trying to say here is don’t shift all the blame on the South, because the North was just as bad. Unfavorable climate and soil were the only reasons slavery didn't catch on in the North. It wasn't because of their superior morality.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:28

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Well I can’t say that I respect your opinion, but I respect your right to it, and I do think you behaved yourself in a manner exceeding normal Gawker arguments.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 12:30

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I try not to act like an ass on the Internet. Aka all gawker FP commenters

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:31

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Well that is mostly something I can get behind, but it still doesn’t make the flag not have super negative connotations.

pauljones > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:33

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Don’t confuse the argument here; no one ever asserted that that the North was any better than the South. What was, asserted, and quite accurately, is that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of some terrible things.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/24/2015 at 12:34

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Fair enough. Agree to disagree?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:35

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Sure.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > pauljones 06/24/2015 at 12:35

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Just as the American flag is to some people, as was my original argument. Let's take that down while we're at it. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, do we?

pauljones > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 12:37

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You’re still confusing the argument. Have fun with that.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > pauljones 06/24/2015 at 12:39

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I don’t know man, I think that's a pretty direct comparison.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > newsmctado 06/24/2015 at 12:50

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Owning up to it is a huge thing.Especially considering that thisi he internet.

Admiral-cb > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 06/24/2015 at 13:23

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1. The flag was used by a bunch of traitors, that’s a good reason alone why it shouldn’t be flown. Maybe this country wouldn’t be so divided if symbols of the “war of northern aggression” weren’t flown over the capital and kept in place with a padlock.

2. The north was morally superior. You can say whatever you want about the actions prior to the war but guess what? The north banned slavery so obviously they were against it. People can say states rights all they want but the main right they wanted was the right to own other human beings like animals. There is no way you can take the moral high ground with that stance.

3. If the flag had been flown continuously since the war, then maybe you could argue it’s not a symbol of hatred, just a tribute to our treasonous family members. The problem is that it made its come back right around the time the south was fighting segregation and was used as an intimidation tactic. I have a feeling that the good majority of people who fly the flag probably aren’t the most progressive people who believe in equality for all.

4. Obviously our history as a country is not perfect and the U.S. has done some pretty shitty things. That being said, this country has done some pretty amazing things in the last 240 years. When people see the American flag, do you think that they think of liberty and freedom or do you think that the first thing that pops into their mind is slavery? The confederate flag has no positive symbols to it, unless you think the south was justified in rebelling... and if you think that, you really shouldn't be an American.

Blondude > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/24/2015 at 14:00

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THANK YOU!

BigBlock440 > Admiral-cb 06/24/2015 at 14:18

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1. The flag was used by a bunch of traitors, that’s a good reason alone why it shouldn’t be flown

So was the American flag

2. The north was morally superior. You can say whatever you want about the actions prior to the war but guess what? The north banned slavery so obviously they were against it.

Except they didn’t until after the war. The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to slaves in the confederate states, slaves in union states were still slaves.

BigBlock440 > Kanaric 06/24/2015 at 14:23

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Huh? The Dukes of Hazzard was set in Georgia, and Robert E. Lee was a Virginia native. Not sure what Kentucky has to do with it.

Admiral-cb > BigBlock440 06/24/2015 at 14:35

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Yes, the American flag was used by a bunch of traitors. Do you see it flying very often in the UK, even above their national flag?

With regards to freeing of the slaves, it's true that it didn't happen across the board until 1865, but the whole point is that it happened then. Do you really think that had the confederates won, they would've abolished slavery before 1865? That is the point I'm making as to why the north was morally superior.

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > BigBlock440 06/24/2015 at 14:36

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The logic! My brain! It’s melting!

But really, you can apply every argument that's against the Confederate flag right back to the American flag. I may not be proud of everything America (or the South) has done, but am I proud to live here and call this great nation (and region) my home.

Bill"TheStig"Murray > McMike 06/24/2015 at 14:40

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I would buy this/ do this to my car.

Fight for your rights > crowmolly 06/30/2015 at 21:03

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If I owned a General Lee, I would never take the flag of it’s roof, no way in hell!!!! I would never remove it!!! If you don’t like it, too bad. DEAL WITH IT!!!!

Fight for your rights > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 06/30/2015 at 21:18

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If I owned a General Lee, I would never take the flag of it’s roof, no way in hell!!!! I would never remove it!!! If you don’t like it, too bad. DEAL WITH IT!!!! Just because some scumbag was holding the flag in a profile pic. If he had been holding a U.S flag in the same picture, would you ban it, I seriously doubt it!!!! THE GENERAL LEE FOREVER!!!!